Transcript of Ambassador Cui Tiankai’s Interview with FOX News Sunday
崔天凯大使接受福克斯电视台“周日新闻”节目采访文字实录
October 14, 2018
2018年10月14日
On October 12, 2018, Ambassador Cui Tiankai had an interview with FOX News Sunday’s Chris Wallace. The interview was aired on October 14. Here is the transcript:
10月12日，崔天凯大使接受美国福克斯电视台“周日新闻”节目主持人华莱士采访，就中美关系、经贸摩擦、朝核问题等回答了对方提问。有关采访已于10月14日在该台“周日新闻”节目中播出。以下为文字实录：
Wallace: Ambassador Cui, welcome to Fox News Sunday.
华莱士：崔大使，欢迎来到“福克斯周日新闻”。
Cui: Thank you.
崔大使：谢谢。
Wallace: I want to start with Vice President Pence’s tough comments about China last week. The vice president called out what he says is your economic aggression, what he called your emboldened military, and what he alleges are your efforts to interfere in the U.S. midterm election. Are the U.S. and China now engaged in a New Cold War?
华莱士：首先，我想谈谈彭斯副总统上周的涉华强硬言论。彭斯在演讲中公开指责中国进行经济侵略、军事恫吓，并试图干涉美国中期选举。美中两国是否正在进行一场“新冷战”？
Cui: Well, first of all, I have to say all these accusations are groundless. One of the fundamental principles in China’s foreign policy is non- interference in the internal affairs of other countries. And we have been consistent in this position. We have a very good track record.
崔大使：首先，我必须指出所有这些指控都是毫无根据的。不干涉内政是中国外交的一条基本原则。中方立场是一贯的，我们在恪守这一原则方面保持了非常好的纪录。
Wallace: You were part of a quite tough meeting with Secretary of State Pompeo in Beijing this week, in which top Chinese officials said they would take “all necessary measures” to safeguard your country. How far is China prepared to go in terms of standing up to the U.S.?
华莱士：本周您出席了美国国务卿蓬佩奥在北京与中方高层官员的会晤，双方在会晤中很强硬。中国高级官员在会上表示，将采取“一切必要措施”捍卫国家。在对抗美国方面，中国准备走多远？
Cui: I think it is the legitimate right of every country to defend its national interest. And China is no exception. But the talks Secretary Pompeo had in Beijing were very good communication at such high level between the two sides. And it’s very timely.
崔大使：捍卫国家利益是每个国家的合法权利，中国也不例外。蓬佩奥国务卿此次在北京同中方高层官员进行了非常好的沟通，也非常及时。
Wallace: Let’s unpack some of this. And let’s start with the allegation of election meddling. Vice president Pence says that China is specifically targeting tariffs to hurt Republican voters to try to turn them away from voting for Republican candidates and eventually from voting for president Trump in 2020. He says that you are putting propaganda mailers in U.S. newspapers. And this week the FBI Director said that China is now the number one, the greatest counterintelligence threat that the U.S. faces. Are you engaged in trying to meddling in the election in 2018, like the way the Russians did in 2016?
华莱士：让我们展开来说，首先是美方指责中方干涉选举。彭斯副总统说，中国的关税政策特意针对共和党选民，以期达到让这些选民不投票给共和党候选人以及最终在2020年拒绝投票给特朗普总统的目的。他表示，中国还在美国报纸上刊登广告进行舆论攻势。美国联邦调查局局长本周表示，中国现在是美国面临的最大的反间谍威胁。中国是否像俄罗斯在2016年干的那样，试图干预美国2018年选举？
Cui: Let me make it clear. Whatever we are doing in terms of tariffs, it is just a response to the tariffs the U.S. side has imposed on us. So it’s a response. If the U.S. side could remove all the tariffs, we will drop all the tariffs. So this is tariffs for tariffs. It’s for nothing else.
崔大使：我想说明的是，中方在关税方面采取的任何行动，都是对美方向中方强征关税的一种回应，仅仅是回应。如果美方取消强征关税，我们对美方的关税也将随之取消。所以说，这是关税对关税，并不针对其他。
Wallace: And what about the mailers that you put in U.S. newspapers? John Bolton, the national security adviser, says that there are a number of classified actions you are taking the meddling in the U.S. election.
华莱士：那中方在美国报纸上刊登的广告呢？美国总统国家安全事务助理博尔顿表示，中方正在对美国中期选举采取一系列秘密行动。
Cui: You see Chinese media, they are just learning from American media, to use all these means to buy commercial pages from newspapers to make their views known, or to cover what is happening here. This is normal practice for all the media.
崔大使：中国媒体只是借鉴了美国媒体的经验，在报纸上购买商业版面发表观点，报道新闻。这是所有媒体的惯常做法。
Wallace: I want to turn to trade and the trade war. Let’s put up here the tariffs that have been imposed. As you point out, President Trump has imposed tariffs on 250 billion dollars of Chinese goods. Your country has responded with tariffs on 110 billion dollars of U.S. exports. Here is President Trump on the situation. (Trump: We have tremendous potential to grow incredibly when we get rid of these horrible, disgusting trade deals with China. Over the last five, six years, we’ve been losing three hundred to five hundred billion dollars a year! Billion!)
华莱士：我想问一些贸易和“贸易战”方面的问题，比如两国互相加征关税。正如您指出的那样，特朗普总统对价值2500亿美元的中国商品加征关税。作为回应，中国对价值1100亿美元的美输华商品加征关税。以下是特朗普总统的相关表态。（略）
Wallace: Now, I know you say that the U.S. started it. But at this point, whoever started it, are the U.S. and China engaged in a trade war?
华莱士：我知道您说这一切是美国挑起的。但无论是谁挑起的，美中正在进行“贸易战”吗？
Cui: Well, we do not want to have any trade war with any other countries, including the United States. But the fact is, through the bilateral trade between China and the United States, you know how much benefit American consumers have got over the years and how much money American companies have made from their operation in China? You have to look at the whole picture.
崔大使：中方不愿同美国或其他任何国家打任何形式的贸易战。你知道事实上中美双边贸易这么多年给美国消费者带来多少好处吗，美国公司在中国赚了多少钱吗？我认为我们要看到问题的整体。
Wallace: So how do you explain what does seem to be a trade war now? I mean, regardless of who started it, they’ve imposed.
华莱士：那怎么解释“贸易战”硝烟四起这个现象呢？我的意思是，先不论是谁发起的。
Cui: It is important to notice who started this trade war. We never want to have a trade war. But if somebody started a trade war against us, we have to respond and defend our own interests.
崔大使：明确是谁发起了“贸易战”很重要。我们不愿打“贸易战”。但如果有人坚持对中国发起贸易战，我们就不得不予以反击，捍卫自己的利益。
Wallace: And do you believe that the trade war and concerns of what that’s gonna do to the global economy are contributing to the sharp drop in the stock market this week?
华莱士：你是否认为，“贸易战”及对“贸易战”会影响全球经济的担忧导致了本周股市重挫？
Cui: You see, China and the United States, we are the two largest economy in the world, we have the responsibility to make sure that we have a positive and constructive bilateral relationship. That will enhance people’s confidence in the prospects of the global economy. This is our shared responsibility.
崔大使：中美作为世界上最大的两个经济体，有责任维护积极、建设性的双边关系，这将增强人们对全球经济前景的信心。这是我们共同的责任。
Wallace: And in a time like now when you don’t have a positive experience and relationship in terms of the global economy?
华莱士：在当下美中关系似乎没有给全球经济带来积极影响的情况下？
Cui: Well, it’s very unfortunate that a trade war was started, but it’s not our fault. What we are doing is only response.
崔大使：“贸易战”开打是一件不幸的事情，但错不在中方，我们只是被动回应而已。
Wallace: The U.S. officials say, though, that China is not so innocent at all of this. They say that you steal intellectual property, that you force technology transfers from U.S. companies that invest in China to Chinese companies. And here is Trump’s trade adviser Peter Navarro talking about China. (Navarro: Structurally, it’s geared toward being the sort of the parasite of the world. Everything that it does to grow its economy often comes at the expense of everybody else.)
华莱士：不过美国官员认为中国并不无辜。他们称中国窃取知识产权，强迫在华投资的美国公司向中国公司转让技术。以下是特朗普的贸易顾问纳瓦罗在谈论中国。（略）
Cui: I think all these accusations about how China has developed are groundless and not fair to the Chinese people. You see China has 1.4 billion people. It would be hard to imagine that one fifth of the global population could develop and prosper, not by relying mainly on their own efforts, but by stealing or forcing some transfer of technology from others. That’s impossible. The Chinese people are as hard-working and diligent as anybody on earth.
崔大使：这些有关中国是如何发展起来的指控毫无事实依据，对中国人民不公平。中国有近14亿人，难以想象这世界五分之一的人口在谋求发展和繁荣时，主要依靠的不是他们自己的奋斗，而是从别人那里偷窃，或者强制别人转移技术。这是不可能的。中国人民勤劳、努力，不亚于世界上任何人。
Wallace: Are you clear who President Trump listens to on trade issues, whether it’s moderates like Kudlow or Mnuchin, or hardliners like Navarro?
华莱士：你清楚特朗普总统在贸易问题上听谁的意见吗？是白宫首席经济顾问库德洛，财长姆努钦这样的温和派，还是白宫国家贸易委员会主任纳瓦罗这样的强硬派？
Cui: You tell me.
崔大使：这得你告诉我。
Wallace: You have confusion about this? I mean, that’s obviously part of your job, as the Chinese Ambassador, to be able to report back to Beijing who has the President’s ear?
华莱士：你不清楚？我认为，向北京报告美国总统听信谁的话，这显然是你作为中国大使的分内事。
Cui: Honestly, I’ve been talking to Ambassadors of other countries in Washington, D.C. This is also part of their problem.
崔大使：坦率说，我同其他国家驻美大使也交流过，他们也有同样的问题。
Wallace: What?
华莱士：什么？
Cui: They don’t know who is the final decision-maker. Of course, presumably, the President will take the final decision. But who is playing what role? Sometimes it could be very confusing.
崔大使：他们也不知道最终决策者是谁。当然，总统应该是最终拿主意的。但在决策中，谁发挥了作用、发挥了什么样的作用？这个问题有时候很令人困惑。
Wallace: There are also military tensions. A Chinese warship recently harassed, and here’s a picture of it, very close, as you can see, a U.S. ship exercising freedom of navigation in the South China Sea. And the U.S. is close to approving a 330-million-dollar arms sale to Taiwan. Do you view these, the U.S. ships in the South China Sea (and) sales to Taiwan, do you view those as U.S. provocations?
华莱士：两国军事关系也趋于紧张。近日中国军舰近距离滋扰在中国南海执行“航行自由行动”的美军军舰，这里有图为证。此外，美方通过一项3.3亿美元对台军售计划。你认为美军舰到南海以及对台军售是对中方的挑衅吗？
Cui: First of all, I think we have to be clear where the incident took place. You’re right to say it was in South China Sea. So it’s at China’s doorstep. It’s not Chinese warships that are going to the coast of California or to the Gulf of Mexico. It’s so close to the Chinese islands and so close to the Chinese coast. So who is on the offensive? Who is on the defensive? This is very clear. About American arms sale to Taiwan, this is a very good example of American intervention into Chinese internal affairs.
崔大使：首先，要清楚事件发生在哪里。你说的很对，事情发生在中国南海，就是说，在中国的家门口。不是中国的军舰开到加州海岸或墨西哥湾，而是（美方军舰）开到非常靠近中国岛屿和海岸的地方去。孰攻孰守，一目了然。至于美对台军售，这完全是美方干涉中国内政的明证。
Wallace: There is a popular book, I’m sure you’re familiar with it, called the Hundred Year Marathon, which says that China has a secret strategy to, in effect, supersede, replace the United States as the world’s great superpower by 2049, which would be the one hundredth anniversary of the forming of the People’s Republic. Does China entertain ambitions to replace the U.S. as the world’s great superpower?
华莱士：有本畅销书叫做《百年马拉松》，相信你很熟悉，说的是中国推行秘密战略，到2049年也就是中华人民共和国成立百年之时，要取代美国成为世界超级大国。中国有取代美国成为世界超级大国的野心吗？
Cui: For China, our only goal is for people to have a better life. We don’t want to challenge or replace anybody else in the world. We want to build a community of nations for shared future together with all the rest of the world, including the US. As for the book you mentioned, I think there are many good books written by many good Americans here about China and about our relations. But since time is precious for everybody, I would not recommend you to read this particular book.
崔大使：对中国来说，我们的目标是让人民过上更美好的生活，不想要挑战或取代任何人。我们愿同包括美国在内的世界其他国家一道，构建人类命运共同体。至于你提到的书，有许多美国有识之士写了很多关于中国和中美关系的好书，考虑到每个人的时间都很宝贵，我不会推荐你去读（你说的）那一本。
Wallace: It’s fake news?
华莱士：那本书是“假新闻”吗？
Cui: Well, you could come to your own conclusion. There are much better books.
崔大使：你可以有自己的见解。我认为有更多书比这本好太多。
Wallace: Ok, let’s talk about another flashpoint-North Korea. Does China agree with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un that any steps that he takes towards denuclearization must be matched by U.S. concessions on the other side? And how do you respond to allegations even by President Trump that China has relaxed its sanctions against North Korea as allowing goods to flow into North Korea?
华莱士：让我们来讨论一下另一个“火药桶”问题——朝鲜。中方是否认同朝鲜领导人金正恩关于无核化的立场，即美方必须对朝每一步无核化举措作出相应让步？您如何回应特朗普总统等人指责中方放松对朝制裁，比如向朝输送货物等？
Cui: China has voted in favor of all the UN Security Council resolutions about sanctions against DPRK and we are implementing all these resolutions.
崔大使：中国在联合国安理会所有涉朝制裁决议上都投了赞成票，并执行所有决议。
Wallace: You have not relaxed them?
华莱士：中方没有放松执行力度？
Cui: As long as these resolutions are still in force, we will implement them faithfully. But at the same time, I think China and the United States, we do have a shared goal, which is denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula. And we both want to have lasting peace on the Korean Peninsula. That’s why we welcome and support the summit in Singapore between President Trump and Mr. Kim. And we very much look forward to their second meeting. We hope concrete steps could be taken to have further progress toward these goals.
崔大使：只要这些决议依然有效，我们就会不折不扣地执行。同时，我认为中美在实现朝鲜半岛无核化，实现半岛持久和平上拥有共同目标。这就是为什么中方欢迎并支持美朝领导人新加坡会晤，也非常期待美朝元首第二次会晤。我们希望能看到一些具体措施得到实施，来进一步推动实现上述目标。
Wallace: And do you think that the United States is right that denuclearization has to happen first? Or do you agree with Kim that, North Korea takes a step, the U.S. takes a step?
华莱士：您认为美方坚持必须先看到朝“无核化”进展的立场是否正确？或者您认同金正恩的立场，即朝美采取“同步走”措施？
Cui: I think in order to achieve the goals, we have to have coordinated, phased and step-by-step approach.
崔大使：我认为，为了实现目标，我们必须采取协调同步、分阶段、循序渐进的措施。
Wallace: That’s the Kim’s position.
华莱士：这就是朝方立场。
Cui: Well, this is a reality. How can you convince him to give up all the nuclear weapons without any hope that the U.S. would be following a more friendly policy towards him?
崔大使：然而这是现实。如果不让朝方看到美方会对朝奉行较友好政策的希望，怎么能说服朝方放弃所有核武器呢？
Wallace: Finally, President Xi and President Trump will meet in Buenos Aires at the G20 Summit next month in November. What do you think are the possibilities that they can turn the situation around, make it less tense? And how important is it to President Xi in that meeting to not be seen as giving in to President Trump and not to be seen as losing face?
华莱士：最后一个问题，习近平主席和特朗普总统将于11月底在布宜诺斯艾利斯举行的二十国集团领导人峰会上见面。您认为双方此次会晤是否有可能扭转当前中美关系紧张局面？对于习主席来说，在会晤中不被看作是对特朗普总统作出让步，不被视为有失颜面，对他有多重要？
Cui: You see, I was very honored to be present at the meetings between the two Presidents, both at Mar-a-Lago April last year and in Beijing last November. And it was so clear that such top-level communication plays the key role, irreplaceable role in guiding the relationship forward. And there’s a good mutual understanding and good working relationship between the two, I hope and I’m sure this will continue.
崔大使：我有幸参与了中美两国元首的两次会晤，一次是去年4月在海湖庄园，另一次是去年11月在北京。显而易见，这样的高层沟通在指引两国关系向前发展方面具有关键和不可替代的作用。两国元首实现了良好的相互了解，建立了良好的工作关系。我希望并相信这样的关系将能继续下去。
Wallace: Ambassadors Cui. Thank you so much. Please come back, sir.
华莱士：崔大使，感谢您接受采访。期待下次对您的采访。
Cui: Thank you.
崔大使：谢谢。