双语资料:驻加拿大大使卢沙野接受媒体集体采访实录(下)
发布时间:2019年02月18日
发布人:nanyuzi  

驻加拿大大使卢沙野接受媒体集体采访实录(下)

Transcript of Chinese Ambassador to Canada Lu Shaye’s Press Conference with Chinese and Foreign Media – 2

 

2019年1月18日

January 18, 2019

 

《人民日报》:大使先生,刚才您提到2018年中加贸易额有望超过1000亿加元。如果中加关系这种局面持续下去,未来会不会对中加经贸等领域合作产生影响?

People’s Daily: As you mentioned earlier, the bilateral trade volume of 2018 exceeded 100 billion Canadian dollars, will the current China-Canada tensions have impact on the cooperation in trade and other fields, if the tensions will last?

 

卢大使:当前中加关系的现状确实对中加双方交往和合作造成很大冲击,这是我们所不愿看到的,责任不在中方。但中国政府愿同加政府共同努力、共同寻找有效的途径来解决目前面临的问题。但是解决问题需要诚意,需要把整个事情的来龙去脉、是非曲直搞清楚,要抓住问题的症结,分清彼此的责任,是谁的问题谁就要负责解决,而不能说自己的问题一笔勾销,却要对方解决自己的关切。我们希望通过双边渠道冷静地处理有关问题,而不要诉诸“麦克风”外交,这样把问题炒热反而无益于解决问题。我们希望能够通过双方的相向而行、共同努力尽快把这些问题解决掉,使两国关系回到正轨。

Ambassador Lu: Yes, indeed, the current China-Canada relations have significantly impacted the cooperation and exchanges between the two countries. This is not something we want to see, but the responsibilities are not on the Chinese’ side. The Chinese government is willing to work together with the Canadian government to seek ways to resolve the issues that we currently face. But in order to resolve the problems, the parties involved need show sincerity, all the ins and outs, and the rights and wrongs must be made clear. We need to strike at the roots of the problems, and figure out the responsibilities of each party. The one who bears the responsibilities should solve their problems first, instead of writing them off and asking the other side to take care of their concerns. We hope these issues can be settled through bilateral channels in a calm manner, instead of resorting to “microphone diplomacy”, hyping up the issue is not conducive to its settlement. We hope these problems can soon be solved jointly by both sides meeting each other half way, so as to bring bilateral relations back to the right track.

 

新华社:大使先生,我注意到,昨天加拿大外长在接受加媒体采访时说,扣押两个加拿大人不是针对加拿大,而是针对整个国际社会。她下周要去达沃斯开会,要把这件事情在达沃斯经济论坛上提出来。对此,您怎么看?

Xinhua News Agency: Mr. Ambassador, I have noticed the report, yesterday the Canadian Foreign Minister said in an interview with the Canadian media that the detention of two Canadians is not against Canada, but against the entire international community. And she’s going to bring this issue up at Davos Economic Forum when she participates in the event. What is your response on this?

 

卢大使:昨天中国外交部发言人已经就这个问题作了回答,事实表明,说中国是对世界其他国家的威胁,这显然是不对的,不符合事实。我刚才也讲到,双方应该通过双边渠道,坐下来冷静地进行商谈,而不要诉诸媒体搞“麦克风”外交。同样,去拉一些国家给自己帮腔,也无助于这个问题的解决。多几个国家表态支持并不能改变问题的性质,公开地打“口水战”可能会激化矛盾,不利于问题的解决。达沃斯世界经济论坛是个谈经济的地方,我们希望不要谈跟经济无关的事情。如果加方有解决问题的诚意,就不应该这么做。我们希望加方三思而后行。

Ambassador Lu: Yesterday, the spokesperson of the Chinese Foreign Ministry has already answered this question. Facts show that it is obviously not true to say that China is a threat to the rest of the world. As I said earlier, the two sides should sit down and talk calmly through bilateral channels, instead of resorting to the media for “microphone diplomacy”. Likewise, bringing in some countries for echoing will not be conducive to its settlement. Expression of support from some countries will not change the nature of the issue. An open war of words may aggravate tensions and not help resolve the issue. Davos is a place for economy discussions, and we do not expect topics irrelevant. If the Canadian side has the sincerity to solve the problem, it should not do so. We hope the Canadian side will think twice before acting.

 

《七天》:2018加中旅游年好像未如想象中的那么火爆,原因是什么?出现近期的情况后,您对此后加中旅游、两国人民双边交往有哪些评论?

Sept Days: What is the reason that 2018 China-Canada Year of Tourism was not as hot as anticipated? In the context of the recent situation, what are your comments on the future China-Canada tourism and the people to people exchanges of the two countries?

 

卢大使:我也感觉好像中加旅游年并没有让双方旅游人数暴涨,但是从数字上看,还是增长了一些。在我的印象里,去年双方旅游人数增长了5%—6%,在加拿大的外国游客来源国里,中国是增长最快的,这是中加旅游年的功劳之一。另外,至少中加旅游年的开展,在两国民众中扩大了对对方国家的宣传。也许双方对去年旅游年的成果还不太满足,所以旅游年还没有结束,去年旅行年还没有举行闭幕式。我希望今年旅游年也许可以继续,当然我们也希望旅游年的开展有一个良好的政治氛围。两国人民间的相互了解和友情会不会反过来对两国政治家产生正面的影响,我希望如此。

Ambassador Lu: Yes indeed, I also feel that the China-Canada Year of Tourism did not witness the boom of tourists from both sides, but the data showed some increase. In my impression, the number of tourists from both sides increased by 5%-6% last year. Among the origin countries of foreign tourists to Canada, China is the fastest growing one, which is one of the merits of the China-Canada Year of Tourism. In addition, at least the launching of the China-Canada Year of Tourism has expanded understanding of each other among peoples of the two countries. Perhaps the two sides are not very content with the outcomes of the tourism year, so the tourism year has not ended yet, and the closing ceremony has not been held. I hope the tourism year may continue in this year, of course in a favorite political atmosphere. Will the mutual understanding and friendship between the two peoples in turn have a positive influence on the politicians of the two countries? I hope so.

 

中新社:在加拿大媒体上,有声音认为,在孟晚舟事件上,中方对加拿大的司法体制、加拿大国情还缺乏了解。还有声音认为,从历史和现实来看,加拿大是西方国家中对华最友好的国家,中方不应对华为事件“反应过激”。您对此怎么看?

China News Service: Thank you, Ambassador. I have noticed that there are voices in the Canadian media who claim that on the case of Meng Wanzhou, China still lacks understanding of Canada's judicial system and national conditions. There are also beliefs that, from the perspective of history and reality, Canada is the friendliest country among western countries to China, and China should not “overreact” to the Huawei case. What do you think about that?

 

卢大使:所谓在孟晚舟案上,中方对加拿大的司法体制不了解,潜台词就是希望中方应接受加方对孟晚舟案的处置方式。据我了解,加媒体还有另外一种声音,认为加方本不应这样处理孟晚舟案。很多加拿大、美国著名学者和评论家表示,如果认为孟晚舟案仅仅是简单的司法案件,那就太天真了。中方从一开始对此案的定性就没错,它是一个政治问题。中国政府一开始就对加政府的处理方式持批评态度,不是因为中方不了解加司法体制,而恰恰说明我们对加司法体制很了解。加拿大的确在中国人民心目中有非常好的形象。可以说,在西方国家中,中国人民认为加拿大是最好的朋友,比如白求恩医生就是一个中加友谊的象征。正因为中国人民把加拿大视为在西方国家中我们最好的朋友,所以在发生孟晚舟事件后,中国人民在感情上受到很大的伤害。在中国有一句俗话叫“为朋友两肋插刀”,但现在很多中国人的感觉像是“被朋友背后捅刀”。这种情况很不好。我刚才一再强调,希望能尽快妥善解决此案,修复两国关系,恢复两国人民间的友好感情。

Ambassador Lu: The so-called China’s lack of knowledge about the judicial system of Canada in the case of Ms. Meng carries the undertone that China should accept Canada’s handling of the case. As far as I know, there are other voices in the Canadian media that the Canadian side should not have handled Ms. Meng’s case in this way. Many well-known scholars and commentators in Canada and the U.S. pointed out that it would be naive to take Meng’s case simply as a judicial one. China’s characterization of the case was correct from the very beginning that it is a political issue. From the very beginning, the Chinese government has been criticizing the Canadian government’s way of handling the case, and it is not because of China’s lack of knowledge of Canada’s judicial system, but rather, because we know it very well. Canada does enjoy highly favorable image in the eyes of Chinese people. It is fair to say that Chinese people regard Canada as their best friend. For example, Dr. Norman Bethune is a symbol of China-Canada friendship. Just because the Chinese people regard Canada as our best friend among the western countries, the Chinese people feel very much hurt emotionally by Ms. Meng’s case. There is a saying in China which goes “A good friend would shield the knife attacks for you”, but regarding this case, now many Chinese feel like being “backstabbed by their friends”. This is not a good situation. As I have stressed repeatedly, we hope there can be a swift and proper resolution of this case so as to mend our relationship and restore the friendship between our two peoples.

 

加拿大广播公司电台:近期特鲁多总理同多国领导人通话,期间谈及中国及法治精神等,您如何看待特鲁多总理的这些沟通,中国会不会因此被孤立?

CBC radio: We have seen Prime Minister Trudeau made some calls to other leaders regarding China and regarding the rule of law, what do you think about those calls? Do you think that could isolate China?

 

卢大使:中国不会在国际社会孤立。国际社会有那么多成员,中方不会因为仅仅几个国家的反对就动摇我们的立场。国际社会不是仅有西方国家,中国的朋友遍天下,横跨亚非拉都有。在国际上拉帮手无助于解决当前问题。这就像我刚才所说的,实际上会激化矛盾,还不如双方踏踏实实地坐下来,诚心诚意地来谈。

Ambassador Lu: China will not be isolated in the international community, and we will not waive in our position simply just because of the objection of some countries in the world. The international community is not only composed of a few western countries. China has a lot of friends around the world across Asia, Africa and Latin America. I think rallying support from other countries around the world is not helpful in resolving the current issues that we face. As I said earlier, these efforts will only serve to escalate tensions. A better way is for both parties to sit down at the table and to have candid and sincere conversations.

 

加拿大广播公司:您刚才提到目前加中应以真诚的态度、基于事实探讨解决问题。但孟晚舟女士的案子是公开透明的,那么中方对两名加公民的指控是什么呢?如果孟晚舟女士释放,中方是否会释放两名加公民?

CBC: Ambassador, you said both parties should show sincerity and all facts should be known to both sides. Can you tell us since we notified the allegations against Ms. Meng, what are the specific charges against the two Canadians? Secondly, you talked about goodwill, if Ms. Meng is released, would China show goodwill and release the two Canadians?

 

卢大使:加方对孟晚舟女士没有任何指控,她没有违反任何加法律。从一开始,中方就表示两名加公民涉嫌参与危害中国国家安全活动。我相信,随着调查深入,对两名加公民的指控会越来越清楚和明确,中方会严格按中国的法律和司法程序来处理两名加公民案件。至于你说的,如果加方释放了孟女士,中方是否会释放两名加公民,我在一开始就强调这两个案子是没有联系的。但既然要解决相互的关切,双方只有坐下来谈。

Ambassador Lu: First of all, there is no accusation against Ms. Meng as she did not violate any Canadian Law. From the very beginning, China has made it very clear that these two Canadian nationals were on suspicion of engaging in activities that endanger China’s national security. As the investigation deepens and advances, the allegation against these two Canadians will become more clear and specific. China will handle the cases of these two Canadians in strict accordance to its own laws and regulations and legal procedures. As for your second question about if China will show goodwill and release the two detained Canadians, I have already made it very clear from the very beginning that the two cases are not connected. But we need to resolve these issues and resolve our common concerns, so the best way for us is to sit down at the table and engage in discussions.

 

路透社:大使先生,您上周在《议会山时报》发表的文章中表示中方采取的行动属于“自卫”,您能否对此作进一步的具体阐述?

Reuters: In your article in the Hill Times, you refer to “self defence”, can you elaborate on that?

 

卢大使:两名加拿大公民涉嫌参与危害中国国家安全活动,中方据此抓捕了他们,这就是“自卫”。

Ambassador Lu: When I said “self defence”, I meant that these two Canadians were on suspicion of endangering China’s national security, so China took compulsory measures and this is “self defence”.

 

加国传媒:孟晚舟女士被无端抓捕后对中国影响严重,很多人对加拿大印象是非常恐惧,他们会担心在加人身安全是否有保障,尤其是企业家和留学生。您对他们有什么想说的吗?您对此有何看法?

Ottawazine: Since the groundless detention of Ms Meng, it seems that Chinese people now have a different impression of Canada, and some of them are very concerned about their safety in Canada. What would you like to say to the Chinese entrepreneurs, businessmen and students in Canada or people that plan to travel to Canada?

 

卢大使:任意拘捕一个没有违反有关国家法律的跨国公司高管,这在世界上是前所未有的。这的确会对中国人尤其是商界人士造成很大冲击,他们难免会对到相关国家旅行的安全问题产生关切。正如中国政府日前发布的旅行安全提示中所说的,建议中国公民赴加旅行要多加注意自身安全。当然,我也注意到加政府也更新了赴华旅行提示。我要重申,中国是世界上最安全的国家,也是高度法治化的国家,我们欢迎各国人士赴华旅游、经商、就学,只要没有违反中国的法律,安全是绝对有保证的。

Ambassador Lu: The groundless detention of a senior executive of a multinational company who did not violate Canada’s laws and regulations is unprecedented. It does shock a lot of Chinese people particularly entrepreneurs and businessmen who conduct business or thinking of conducting business in Canada, and it is understandable that they have such concerns for their own safety. As with the recently released travel advisory by the Chinese government with regard to travelling to Canada, Chinese citizens should pay more attention to their safety. We also noticed that Canada also issued a similar travel advisory for China, but here I want to reiterate that China is one of the safest countries in the world, and China is a country based on the rule of law. We welcome businessmen and students and people from around the world to come to China, to visit China or study in China, and as long as they abide by Chinese laws and regulations, their safety can be guaranteed.

 

《渥太华生活》:大使先生,您能否为我们介绍一下当前加中政府就解决近期案件的最新进展,双方交流的层级是哪一层?加方是总理还是外长在同中方沟通?另外,近期加公民谢伦伯格在中国被判死刑,加总理特鲁多和外长弗里兰均对此表达了关切,也请求中方宽大处理,请问谢伦伯格有无近期被行刑的危险?中方是否会考虑加方宽大处理谢伦伯格的请求?

Ottawa Life Magazine: Can you give us an update as of today at what level is our government talking with Chinese government? Is our Prime Minister talking with you? Is our Minister of Foreign Affairs talking with you? Could you give us a status of exactly what that discussion is that today? The second question I have is with regard to Mr. Schellbenberg who was convicted in China for serious drug charge. On the appeal, he was given death sentence. Our Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs expressed deep concern about that and asked for clemency in that case. Is he in any imminent danger of that sentence being carried out? Is that something Chinese government considering on the clemency request from the Canadian side in this case?

 

卢大使:中加双方就近期事件保持着畅通的沟通渠道。我也曾与弗里兰外长几次通话。两国总理、外长因日程原因迄今尚未接触上。媒体上也没有看到相关报道,总理与外长级别应该是没有接触。通过目前中加双方的接触,双方对彼此的观点非常清楚,我希望双方的接触不能只停留在表达立场上,而应更进一步,展示解决问题的诚意。

Ambassador Lu: China and Canada maintain open and close communication on such issues. For example, personally I have exchanged phone conversations with Canadian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland. Maybe due to schedules or other reasons, we can see that Canadian Prime Minister and Foreign Minister have not been exchanging with their Chinese counterparts directly on these issues, and we haven’t seen any media reports either. I think based on the contacts and exchanges between us so far, both sides are very clear about each others’ position and main arguments. I hope that contacts of the two countries and two sides should not simply be about expressing each side’s position, but should also be about showing resolve and sincerity to address these issues.

 

至于谢伦伯格案,大家都知道,毒品犯罪在世界各国都是重罪,中国法院根据中国的法律对其判处死刑是合乎中国法律规定与司法程序的。我看到加媒体有很多说法,有人说中国对他判处死刑速度太快。但如果你仔细阅读中国法庭发布的有关文件,就能看出此次判决遵守了中国《刑事诉讼法》所规定的所有程序与时限要求。所以一项判决是否符合法律规定,不在于作出判决的时间长短,相信加方对此可以理解并且予以尊重。对于谢伦伯格先生而言,他还有上诉的机会。正如在一审判决后,他也提起上诉才有了现在的重审。至于该案的最后结果,要看下一步他是否会上诉,以及上诉后法院会作何裁决。

As for Schellbenberg’s case, as we are all aware that drug related crimes are felony around the world, and Chinese court issued the death penalty for Schellbenberg according to Chinese law and relevant juridical procedures. There are a lot of different voices in Canadian media and some people say this was a rather hasty decision. But if you read carefully the relevant court documents, you will see that all the rules and regulations and standards according to China’s Criminal Procedure Law were observed strictly. Whether the ruling is in accordance with the law or not is not based on how fast the decision is made. I certainly hope that Canadian side could understand and respect it. Mr. Schellbenberg still has the right to appeal, and actually it was his appeal previously that prompted the retrial. As for how the case will evolve in the future, it depends on whether he would appeal or not, and if he does, how the court will rule this case in the future.

 

彭博社:孟晚舟案非常复杂,可能会拖延数月甚至数年,中国是否有耐心在等待该案判决期间不采取进一步恶化局势的行动?此外,加方认为加公民康明凯享有外交豁免权,为何中方认为他没有?

Bloomberg: I was wondering in the Meng Wanzhou’s case, that could be months or perhaps for years because it is a complicated international decision. Can China wait that long not escalating situation further? Prime Minister Trudeau said Mr. Kovrig has some forms of diplomatic immunity. Why does China not view him having any diplomatic immunity?  

 

卢大使:中方认为,孟晚舟案从一开始就不具有合理性。从加拿大方面看,她没有违反加任何法律。从美国方面讲,美国指控她违反了所谓的制裁伊朗法案,而这是美国国内的法律。美国的“长臂管辖”没有任何国际法依据,这是将国内法凌驾于国际法之上。如果所有国家都像美国一样用“长臂管辖”实现自身目的,世界就乱了。相信加方也不会希望某个加公民因吸毒或贩毒,当他在第三国旅行时被中国政府抓捕。所以孟晚舟女士的案子不应持续很长时间,应很快做出了断,就是将她释放。至于康明凯先生的外交豁免问题,中国也有很多国际法专家,他们研究了《维也纳外交关系公约》认为,从这次康明凯访华的身份、持有的护照、签证都意味着他不享有“外交豁免”。至于加政府讲的,在他任驻华外交官期间从事的活动具有所谓的“余效豁免”。实际上根据国际法和国际惯例,如其活动不是执行职务也不能享有“余效豁免”。《维也纳外交关系公约》规定,危害国家安全的行为不属于执行职务的行为。美国、加拿大以及其他西方国家有很多类似判例,都认为外交官从事危害驻在国国家安全的行为不是执行职务的行为。

Ambassador Lu: With regard to Ms. Meng’s case, from the very beginning, China has always believed that this case is not justifiable. From the perspective of Canada, Ms. Meng did not violate any Canadian law. From the perspective of the U.S., the allegation is that Ms. Meng violated its sanction against Iran. But this is U.S.’s domestic law, so this can be called as a long arm jurisdiction in which the U.S. put its domestic law above international law. If all countries act like the U.S. and apply long arm jurisdiction for their own purposes and objectives, then the world would be a mess. I believe that Canada does not want to see a Canadian national being arrested in a third country by China for charges for example drug trafficking. So we believe that Ms. Meng’s case should not be last very long. It should be resolved very soon. The result would be her release. With regard to your second question about diplomatic immunity for Michael Kovrig, there are lots of international law experts in China who have studied the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations and Chinese side believes that Michael Kovrig entered China with a regular passport and business visa, and he does not enjoy diplomatic immunity. While some people in Canada say that his work and duties as a former diplomat enjoys residual immunity, however, based on the relevant clauses in the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, if these activities were performed not in his role as a diplomat, then he does not enjoy diplomatic immunity. According to the Convention, activities that endanger national security are not activities or duties carried out by a diplomat. There are similar cases and rulings in the U.S., Canada and western countries that activities carried out that endanger country’s national security are not considered as activities in his capacity being a diplomat.